Here is Mark Dever's (a Southern Baptist preacher) take on election and evangelism. What do you think?
Have you heard it said that the doctrine of God’s choosing some for salvation (the doctrine of election) undercuts evangelism? It didn’t in Paul’s life. As he . . . wrote to Timothy, “I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ jesus, with eternal glory” (2 Tim. 2.10). Romans 10 contains Paul’s clearest and most impassioned plea for Christians to send out people to preach the gospel because it is the only way people are saved; but this impassioned plea comes after what many consider Paul’s plainest teaching about the doctrine of election in Romans 9. He didn’t see any inconsistency that a sovereign God is also a saving God.
Somehow, Paul found the doctrine of God’s sovereignty an encouragement in his evangelism. Do we need to recover this confidence in a day of increasing opposition to the public preaching of the gospel? I think we do. I fear that much of today’s evangelism will soon end. As evangelism becomes more and more unpopular, I fear that some Christians will simply dilute it, water it down, alter it, or even stop sharing the good news altogether. I think a better understanding of the Bible’s teaching on God’s election would help them. I think it would give them confidence and joy in their evangelism. (pp.104-105)
5 comments:
Too bad the Arminians weren't around in Paul's time to let him now his theology was being poisoned by Calvinist thinking. lol
It is my position that a lack of understanding of God's sovereignty in the salvation on men (and the evangelism that is used as the tool so that men might be saved) is a major reason why evangelism is so shallow or even non-existent in the lives of most Southern Baptists. We have been taught all our life that we have to "get out there" and get people saved or they might go to hell and it'll be our fault.
The implication of that is we have generations of Baptists carrying the burden of being a "soul-winner" and being fearful of messing up the gospel presentation or not knowing all the answers. What an amazing amount of pressure! It would just be easier to leave it alone and let the pastor do it.
However, once you know that salvation is in the hands of the Lord and that the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of the ones God has given to Christ, then we have the promise from God that those people will not be cast aside and will come to Christ and will be raised up on the last day.
It is not up to me. It happens in spite of me. All that God requires of me is to be faithful in telling people what I know - Jesus Christ saves sinners!
evangelism is sharing with others the good news of what christ has done for me and can do for them.what he did for me was to offer himself as a sacrifice to pay my sin debt and offer me an opportunity at a restored relationship with him.my acceptance of his offer was secured by my faith and repentance.his sacrifice was for everyone so you too can have a restored relationship with him through trust and repentance.if i understand calvinism correctly the calvinist would say god elected me for a restored relationship with him irregardless of my will and i'm heavenbound.he may elect you as well and you'll be heaven bound.but to be totally honest though i have to tell you you may not be one of the elect so your future is eternal punishment.christs sacrifice was for everyone,his desire is that no one perish.his offer of a restored relationship is for everyone the good news is for everyone.is a true bearer of good news one who says you have been forcefully elected or you may have not been elected.what kind of relationship is a forced relationship and what kind of good news says you may not be one of the elect.1st peter 1:12(living bible)says that the angels of god saw the good news as so wonderful and strange that they didn't totally understand it.it wouldn't seem so strange and wonderful that the almighty sovereign god that they knew would zap someone into a restored relationship(rebirthing them before they're restored).what would seem wonderful and strange is how almighty and sovereign god could allow a lowly and sinful being a freewill to accept or reject gods offer.the good news is not that you have been elected to enter a restored relationship with god.the good news is christs desires a restored relationship with everyone his sacrifice was for everyone we who are restored are to take the good news to everyone.the good news is christ has done all the work that needs to be done he initiated the restoration process through the work of the holy spirit hes given us a free will. to secure a restored relationship then is left to our free will our choice(acceptance through faith and repentance or rejection).relationship is a two way street.god has done his part for us to be restored hes given us a freewill so that we can do our part. hes made the offer faith and repentance is our proper response foa a renewed relationship with him.
Lynn,
Jamie's posts seem to bring us into the same discussion every time. I so appreciate your zeal for the Lord and your desire to see the world evangelized.
As for this Calvinist, I joined 250 others from our church to take the Good News of the Gospel all over Iredell County yesterday and did not think of anyone as elect or non-elect. Now, you might be surprised to hear of a 5-pointer going out and doing evangelism and you might be even more surprised to hear that I shared the gospel indiscriminately and did not once ask (or even think) of the status as elect or non-elect.
The Lord has not given that knowledge to us though I do understand that those whom He has elected will respond to the Gospel. That gives me confidence and enough "unction" to do what is a difficult task for me (as it is for almost everyone I know).
Now, Lynn, I have to take issue with some of the phrases in your post. They do not line up with any Calvinist thought from any Calvinistic person I have ever read or heard. For instance, you say:
1) God forcefully elects and there is a forced relationship. No Calvinist author I read believes such things. The only people I know who say such things are non-Calvinists arguing philosophically to poison the well.
2) God saves irregardless of my will. No Calvinist denies the truth that people must respond to the gospel message. However, the Bible also tells us that no one seeks after God or understands God. I am glad that God did not take my will into account. If God had to look into the future and "elect" me based on the spiritual decisions He saw me making later in life, how helpless would be estate forever be!
3) You make multiple assumptions about the angels understanding of the gospel and humans. These are not necessarily so.
4) Most dangerously, you say that "God has done His part" which you later reveal to be His gift of a free will. In your view, God's part is completely captured in the offer of Christ. In your view, nothing definitive happened on the cross. The only thing that Christ accomplished on the cross was to make men "savable." He in fact, saved no one but only did the work of getting all men back to "zero" so that now their free will makes all the difference. I must ask, when you look at yourself as a believer and consider another who is not a believer (whether family, friend, or stranger), how do you explain the difference between you and them? By your own admission, the difference cannot be explained by anything on the part of God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. They have already done all they can do (unless they want to do damage to man's great free will). So, the only difference between you and them must be - and it is the only option you have remaining - your own free will. It would appear to me that there is much room for boasting in things other than the cross in this view!
Again, as I have stated in the past, I hope this does not sound strident or condescending or accusative. Internet postings are easy to misread between the lines. The above is written in love and a desire to learn from you and continue a mutual discussion between fellow believers.
jeff;
i thank god for your obedience in evangelizing.you being of the chosen i believe thats what you are supposed to do.if i understand correctly though you believe that only the chosen will be saved and only those who have been regenerated can believe.aren't you then taking the good news to some but the bad news to others?i believe a part of what makes the good news good news is that god desires that no one perish.john 6:40 says my father's will is that everyone who looks to the son and believes in him shall have eternal life.whosoever will is good news.
as to a forced election and a forced relationship---dr. norman geisler(he says hes a calvinist)uses the same word in his book systematic theology when referring to irrestible grace .is that not one of the beliefs of 5-pointers?one of the meanings of force is constraint.the dictionary says that constraint is the effect of a force or circumstance that limits freedom of action or choice.if its irrestible and you don't have a choice its at least kin to force.
as to irregardless of my will---james white(a devout 5-pointer) in the book debating calvinism when addressing irrestible grace says"when god chooses to move in the lives of his elect and bring them from spiritual death to spiritual life no power in heaven or on earth can stop him from so doing".he goes on to say"he does so without the fulfillment of any conditions on the part of the sinner".not only does that sound like force it also sounds like its irregardless of ones will.
as to god has done his part---i believe you misunderstood what i was saying god's part was in salvation. what i meant to emphasize was that christ offered himself as a sacrifice to pay my sin debt.that didn't save everyone but it gave everyone an opportunity to be saved,it did make them savable.whosoever will is another part of the salvation process and thats where the freewill part comes in.without christs blood sacrifice though there would be no need for free will.as to looking at the non-believer and what makes me different from them is that i accepted christs offer of the gift of salvation whereas they rejected that offer.
your right this is a family feud.rest assured there is no ill-will.i emphasize whosoever will, you emphasize god's sovereignty and we both emphasize evangelism.as ephesians 1:3 says all praise to god,the father of our lord jesus christ who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we are united with christ.
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