Guys like Brian McLaren, Rob Bell and Doug Pagitt struggle with Heaven and Hell being actual places... They also struggle with the "virgin birth, salvation, the atonement, Jesus and the authority of the Bible." Most emergents like these men are universalist, they believe everyone is "gonna be in Heaven" wherever that is to them. They really can't explain it in good terms. I recently heard an interview with Doug talking about Heaven and he said it isn't a place per say and rambled on about something (he sounded like a drunk talking about seeing pink elephants).. But so goes the emergent church...
Rob Bell in his book "Velvet Elvis" said this and I quote: If the gospel isn't good news for everybody, then it isn't good news for anybody.
And this is because the most powerful things happen when the church surrenders its desire to convert people and convince them to join. It is when the church gives itself away in radical acts of service and compassion, expecting nothing in return, that the way of Jesus is most vividly put on display.To do this, the church must stop thinking about everybody primarily in categories of in or out, saved or not, believer or nonbeliever...
I am thankful Rob was not the person who shared the gospel with me. Because it wouldn't really matter about my spiritual state before God, just pat me on the back and tell me I am basically a good person. No need to repent and believe Jesus.
To most emergents, God is nothing more than a glorified welfare system: helping the homeless and hugging each other. I strongly believe we should try to help everyone we can but just giving a man a dollar or building him a house will not help his present state spiritually. Eventhough, at times, this can lead to a person coming to Christ, most of the time it doesn't. The problem with emergents is this: it doesn't matter if they come to Christ or not.
These are not my words but the words of my Lord:
25When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, "Rabbi, when did you come here?" 26Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. 27 Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you.
--41So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." 42They said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, 'I have come down from heaven'?" 43Jesus answered them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. 44No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
-47Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" 61But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? 62Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
Maybe the emergents should read the red letters in this passage. Jesus did a great humanitarian work by feeding the multitude (20,000 people maybe). Then He said he wasn't about just feeding people because that is temporary. He is about eternal life thru belief in Him....
--Jesus also makes it pretty plain that not everyone will follow.
John 6:66 says After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.
And guess what --Jesus let them walk... He even offered the 12 the opportunity to walk, as well: So Jesus said to the Twelve, "Do you want to go away as well?"
Jesus said that unless you have been drawn by the Father you can't come (more on this in another post).... Jesus would not make a very good emergent like Doug, Brian and Rob.
It is easy to stand over the Bible and make assumptions, but God has called us to stand under the Word and accept it as written...
Is Heaven a real Place? Yes! Will everybody get in? No, unfortunately not.
27But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. Revelation 21:27
Does this mean God is cruel and un-loving? No, it just means He is loving, holy and just.
3 comments:
I listened to that interview Todd Friel had with Doug Pagitt. I found my jaw dropping several times in the midst of it - I could not believe a man who takes the label of pastor could have such unbiblical beliefs (or that people would follow him).
Of course, Pagitt is also the one who had this to say about the gospel he preaches and the gospel preached by John MacArthur:
"I would strongly encourage you to have a much more full and biblical understanding of the gospel, and not form a faith based on any interpretation of one verse. I'm not sure you'd be interested in this, but I have just finished a book somewhat on this topic. I think it might give you a more full understanding of the gospel than the one perverted by the likes of John MacArthur. I do not say "perverted" lightly, either. I really think what he communicates is so distant from the message of the Bible that it is dangerously harmful to people. If you heard the interview and his comments about a God who is 'above us,' I certainly hope you would see this."
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2007/09/doug_pagitt_say.html
Keep up with what the Emergent guys are saying/writing but beware their leaven!
By the way, you may remember that this same Doug Pagitt was originally on the list to speak in NC at the request of the State Convention of NC at the "Wired2Grow" conference:
(http://www.wired2grow.com/)
After many calls about Pagitt's inclusion after his appearance and subsequent comments with and about MacArthur to discuss Christians and yoga (I dare you to diagram that sentence), Pagitt was removed from the list of speakers.
They still have Rick McKinley coming. Rick was in my doctoral classes at Gordon-Conwell the past three years. He and I never discussed the issue - it never came up and I didn't know he was in that camp.
Jeff,
thanks for the comment. Rick was and may still be in the Acts29 group started by Mark Driscoll. I don't know if you are familiar with Mark but he is a very good student of the Word. He is very Reformed and preaches verse by verse books of the Bible. Some don't like Mark because of the way he comes across but John Piper has had Mark speak at his Conf. before. I heard Rick speak at Catalyst last year he was Ok then, kind of promoted his book "A Beautiful Mess"-- I was amazed at how short he was.
Donald Miller also spoke with him (i am not a Donald Miller fan) hope Donald doesn't influence him to much.
But as for Doug, he is a heretic in my opinion. Just don't like his theology one bit. Brian Mclaren is a heretic, in my opinion and so is Rob Bell.
The reason for the post is our convention is looking to these guys as some kind of standard for the new way of doing church.
I guess since Welch couldn't get 1 million baptisms they think some emergent dude can get it done.
I was at a pastors Conf. last yr and they showed a video by Rob Bell and asked us what we thought and I said "I think he denies many doctrines we hold dear and i wouldn't give him the time of day."
This didn't go over well with some and i was amazed at how many pastors didn't really know what he believes or stands for. The same guy is who showed the video tried to get Pagitt (aka Shaggy) to come to the Wired2 Grow Conf.
Hope our convention will wake up and stop catering to these guys.
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